“No one sets out to make a bad movie,” Gina Prince-Blythewood said directly on a Zoom with IndieWire.
She’s speaking for everyone in Hollywood, but especially for herself, Issa Rae, and Kumail Nanjiani; the three executive producers and mentors on Season 4 of “Project Greenlight,” which Max recently rebooted with fresh new talent. This time, “Greenlight” will focus on a first-time filmmaker Meko Winbush, on a time crunch to make her debut feature, “Gray Matter.”
“I know ultimately I could, but doing the film in 18 days with three weeks prep and a script that still needed work — it’s insane,” Prince-Blythewood said. “The fact that Meko came through it and she’s still mentally stable is testament to her.”
Throughout the series, Winbush deals with familiar filmmaker struggles: creative clashes, moving schedules, and an uncertain script — all with the documentary crew of “Project Greenlight” hot on her heels and her crew’s. At least one person drops out of the production due to discomfort with simultaneously being on a reality show. It’s a trial by fire, and it’s televised.
“There were so many challenges for Meko specifically in this that made it even harder than making a lot of other movies,” Nanjiani said. “I’m really, really impressed that she kept it together. I think she really has the fortitude of a director.”
Prince-Blythewood, Rae, and Nanjiani spoke jointly with IndieWire (prior to the SAG-AFTRA strike) about rebooting the reality series first led by Matt Damon and Ben Affleck in 2002, now produced HooRae Media, Miramax, 3 Arts Entertainment, and Alfred Street Industries. Rae said the idea came from HooRae President of Development & Production Montrel McKay, who features prominently in the series alongside SVP of Development Sara Rastogi, director of development Jax Clark, producer Celia Khong, and Catchlight’s Jeanette Volturno and Yolanda T. Cochran. Below, the trio talk about the challenges of their own Hollywood journeys and what it meant to be part of Winbush doing the same.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
IndieWire: Hollywood loves to complain that it’s so hard to find female directors directors of color, but clearly when you put in the effort, that’s not the case. Tell me more about the experience of this process and seeing that the talent really is there.
Gina Prince-Blythewood: There were a number of reasons I came aboard this, but I think for most was hearing the flip that Issa wanted to do. It’s a show I had watched for years and loved, but to know that we were going to focus on female directors, knowing how many incredible young artists are coming up and just need a shot and knowing the narrative in our industry and the dearth of opportunity… It’s exciting, and not only does the person who got chosen get to go through this and be in the spotlight, but the other young women that they found get to be put in the spotlight as well.
Issa Rae: While we were looking at all of the short films that were submitted, it was actually hard to narrow them down. We had thousands of submissions and even within the top 10, when we all gave them one scene to recreate, we had to deliberate for a while — even off camera. We were like “Just shut the cameras off,” because we had the opportunity to pick someone great and hopefully change their lives. The goal is to have them work for long afterwards. And that’s something that honestly “Project Greenlight” hasn’t been able to do for anyone besides like, Shia LaBeouf. There is such a huge opportunity we have with this platform, and so many opportunities that all of these female filmmakers who are part of this process [have] to even be seen, to know that they’re out there makes such a big difference. We’re just proud to be a part of that.
Kumail Nanjiani: There’s so much talent, and they don’t get the experience because there aren’t opportunities and they don’t get the opportunities because they don’t have experience. It becomes this catch-22 because traditionally, a certain kind of person has gotten to direct movies and TV shows here in this industry. It was really exciting to see all these talented people who I had never heard of before, and then be able to give them a chance to really show people what they can do.
Let’s talk about the process of inheriting and rebooting “Project Greenlight,” starting with HooRae.
IR: Given that we love to find new new talent of all types, this just felt like a natural extension of that. Max was super enthusiastic, and when I pitched them Gina and Kumail they were completely on board. Working with the two of them was super ideal, dream mentors. Gina — I’ve made it no secret that she’s the reason why I’m doing what I’m doing and inspired me, and Kumail I got a chance to work with really, really closely on one of the movies that we did together and he’s such a cinephile and so smart.
GPB: It was exciting to hear who was a part of this, and it was an easy yes. My only hesitancy was I’ve never been in front of the camera, where these two have, and that freaked me out a little bit. Things come with that that they’re used to as well, but it was too hard to pass up. I respect both of them so much, and it was great to get to know them even more on this process. It was crazy how often we aligned with our thoughts, with who we ultimately chose, the work, the notes. It was fun and you feel like you’re doing something to help this industry, so not only do we get to do things that we’d love to do, but I think all of us have that goal to pull others up into this, and others that look like us and these voices that need to be heard, not only in our industry but in the world. I’m just proud to have been a part of it and excited for people to see it.
KN: I have a pretty simple rule in my life: Issa asks me to do something, I say yes. We’d worked together and I had a wonderful time, and seeing how good Issa was at all aspects of this — the creative aspect, the production aspect, the acting, all that stuff she was so good at — I’m always looking for a chance to work with her again to learn from her. With Gina, she’s one of my favorite filmmakers, and it was really really thrilling to hear how she approaches filmmaking and to the way her mind thinks, and gives notes to the director and editing notes and all that. It was really, really fascinating and instructive experience for me. The goal of it is kind of twofold; One, you give someone a shot who deserves a shot, and two, it really shows the people what it’s like making a movie. It’s really, really hard. You go to the theater, you see a movie, and it’s absolutely terrible — hundreds of people worked really, really hard to make that thing. I think it just gives people an appreciation for it.
This is a two part question: What was the biggest challenge for you coming up and what do you think is the biggest challenge for filmmakers coming up now?
KN: One of the sad things I’ve seen about the movie business is sort of the death of mid-budget movies for grownups. I feel like everything is either huge IPs or reboots or reimaginings — and that’s totally fine, I’ve nothing wrong with that — but if you look at the movies that were making money in the ’80s and ’90s, there were these movies that were for grownups that would play in theaters and would do well and people would go see them. Now I feel like the industry’s gotten really bifurcated because there’s either really small movies for streaming or really, really big movies. The bar for success for these big movies is so high. I understand moviemaking is business, but then because you spent $300 million on these movies you can’t really do anything truly artistic with them; you have so many people second guessing because the investment is so high.
To me the challenge of our industry right now is honestly how do you sustain it? Budgets have gotten really, really wild and then you watch these movies and it feels like sometimes you’ve seen all these movies before. That’s why I’m really excited about “Barbie” because it’s a brand that we all know but it’s had so many generations of relationship to it. It’s been beloved and had backlash and different cycles over and over — and to take that and do something new with it, to me that’s really exciting because you’re working within the parameters of big Hollywood filmmaking, but you’re doing something new with it.
IR: To answer the first part, the hardest part was for sure breaking in, especially telling the stories that I wanted to tell. By the time I was “of age” to be taken seriously, they weren’t making movies or shows that were for us specifically, except maybe one network. Reality television had taken over for our story, so that was our representation and it frustrated me because obviously it was very limited and kind of scandalous, in a way where I was just like, “I don’t know a lot of people like this.”
And now I would say, the challenge is the breakout, because there is so much. I miss pop culture, in a sense; I miss monoculture where we would all be talking about the same shows and the same movies or at least niches of people would be talking about the same shows and the same movies. Because everything’s so fragmented and we’ve kind of lost the the watercooler moments it is hard for things to gain steam. …It’s hard for new shows that are actually great and new films that are great to get people to talk about them for a long enough time for it to matter.
GPB: The hardest thing was breaking in with my voice. It’s tough and it’s a hard fight to believe in yourself and believe you have something to say and want to put characters in the world that we haven’t seen in films that were being made. You’re trying to convince people that there’s value in your voice and the majority of the people — not the majority, all of them who are making the decisions — didn’t see the value in my voice, and that’s a really tough thing but that’s why you’ve got to have that insane belief in yourself and that swagger and that confidence. I feel like all of us broke in by doing something really personal, and that’s what you have to do. But the strange thing is, where the industry is right now, as much as they say they value unique voices, everything is so event-driven. … There’s got to be a space for those unique voices to break through and kind of solidify, and then you just start building and changing and growing as a filmmaker. I don’t see those opportunities as often, but thank God for “Project Greenlight.”
There’s so much insight into the filmmaking process and then tension between “Project Greenlight” and “Gray Matter.” What is the top thing you learned from this process, specifically making a movie while making a show?
IR: It’s hard to make a movie in 18 days. I obviously commend our filmmaker for being able to do that, especially with a camera in her face. I think the biggest thing I learned is I definitely want to be more present. That’s something that we all lamented post-the process. There was no shortage of people that Meko could connect with, but I just would’ve been more hands on and I think that’s the biggest lesson out of all of this. We wanted to make a great movie and help a filmmaker succeed, and so time is truly essential.
GPB: I second it. That was the thing that we’ve talked about, that we could have been there more. I think the hardest thing for me is that now, just understanding how these things work, I didn’t feel like I could always be as brutally honest sometimes as I would have, because you don’t want anything taken out of context. Suddenly I say something that’s cut and then my career’s over. There were a couple of times where it was “Meko, turn your mic off because I need to get into you right now and really talk to you.” The things that I said on camera, obviously they’re all truthful and imparting wisdom, but it’s something I had to keep in the back of my mind being my first time in front of the camera.
KN: I want to echo the same thing, I wish I could have been there more to support Meko. It was a shame that I couldn’t be, not ideal. But again, I was very impressed. Making your first movie is always going to be so hard, and to do that while a reality show is also being made — I mean the level of challenge. 18 days, with basically three actors. The reality of the budget means that the movie is not going to have big action sequences. It’s gonna mostly be people sort of talking in rooms, and so you need actors who can really make that dynamic.
In your professional opinion as the people closest to this, what should people watch first: “Project Greenlight” or “Gray Matter?”
IR: Watch “Project Greenlight” first. Understand what went into it. But I am curious for people who just see the movie on the platform and are just like “Oh.” I admire those people who just see it and are like “This is what I want to watch!” without knowing anything about it. So if that happens I’m very curious.
KN: It’ll be so fascinating for people to see all that goes into making this movie and then to watch the movie itself.
“Project Greenlight” and “Gray Matter” are now streaming on Max.
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