‘Apple Cider Vinegar’s Kaitlyn Dever, Alycia Debnam-Carey and Aisha Dee on Being Desperate To Find Hope

[Editor’s note: The following contains spoilers for Apple Cider Vinegar.]

Summary

• The Netflix series ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’ delves into the dangers of seeking hope online and the impact of wellness influencers.
• Both Belle and Milla use social media differently, showcasing its dual nature of good and dark aspects.
• The complex storyline sheds light on personal struggles, advocacy choices, and the importance of perspective.

Inspired by real life, the Netflix series Apple Cider Vinegar tells the story of wellness influencer Belle Gibson (Kaitlyn Dever), a woman who claimed to cure her brain cancer through healthy eating. Establishing a growing following online meant that others desperate for a way to save their own lives put their faith in Belle, even though she never actually had cancer herself. At the same time, Milla (Alycia Debnam-Carey) embarks on a journey to beat her own very real cancer diagnosis, any way she can. With her family’s love and the support of her friend Chanelle (Aisha Dee), the two start to question Belle’s story and whether any of what she has represented to the world is true.

During this interview with Collider, co-stars Dever, Debnam-Carey and Dee talked about the dangers of looking for hope on the internet, having grace for those going through an intensely traumatic life experience, how things spiraled out of control for Belle, getting into Milla’s mindset, the fight between Belle and Chanelle, and the challenge of singing, cursing and pulling off the perfect Australian accent for Dever.

Kaitlyn Dever Was Well Aware of Wellness Influencers Before Signing On for ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’

“This story is very personal to me.”

Collider: It feels like “a true story based on a lie” is a very accurate description of how most people represent themselves on social media, at this point. It’s also easy to see how you can start with small misrepresentations and how that can easily spiral out of control. How do you guys feel about that aspect of this? Do you just prefer avoiding social media? Are you wary of even looking at other people’s social media?

KAITLYN DEVER: This story is very personal to me in many ways. I was very much aware of wellness influencers before coming onto this project. I did a ton of obsessive research about cancer care and holistic health and all of that. There is a lot out there that’s not true, and there is a lot of helpful information out there. What social media did for me, in my personal life, was that it gave me a lot of hope. That’s what people crave when getting onto social media, looking for answers. I was aware of that before doing this job, and then, since doing it, what the show has taught me is the real importance of being your own advocate and doing what’s right for you.

Your characters use it in different ways on the show, whether it’s exposing someone, or trying to find something to help them, or just trying to share their personal story. There are so many different uses for social media, and yet each of those uses can just turn terribly wrong so easily.

AISHA DEE: Like everything, there’s a beautiful aspect to social media, and then there’s a really dark, scary aspect to it, as well. It’s just how you choose to engage with it.

Because you are actors and you spend your careers playing human beings that do good and bad things, and who are flawed and complicated, what did you love about this experience, in particular? What did you learn from the character that you play, in getting to explore their life experience? Did it make you consider something you hadn’t before, or think about anything differently?

ALYCIA DEBNAM-CAREY: I feel like I learned a little bit more grace for people who are going through something like this. I do think there’s a typical black and white view of medicine and wellness, which is conventional or non-conventional, and that’s it. They are two very separate things. This experience, this story, playing Milla, I learned and understood more someone’s perspective who is just trying to find any kind of hope and any different alternative to figure out what would save her and heal her. It is such a messy and complicated thing. These themes are so difficult. It further showed me how messy and complicated it all is for people going through this. It’s so hard. It gave me a lot more perspective, and grace and understanding for why people do some of the things they do, even if some of it’s misguided. If you have the idea and option of hope with anything, of course you’re gonna be drawn to it. It’s very easy to disregard it or say it’s stupid or ridiculous, but there is real empathy and discovery and hope in a lot of that, too.

DEVER: To speak on that and your storyline in particular, that experience is so real. I’m so glad and happy that (show creator) Sam [Strauss] was shedding light on how this can affect a young woman, but this kind of thing and this diagnosis can affect the family. What is so real is just that search for anything that’s gonna work and just want to be told, “This is the thing that’s gonna work for you and this will get rid of it.” But there isn’t anything out there. As much as we’d like to say, “Conventional is the answer,” it’s not. There are definitely a lot of advances and there continues to be a lot of advances and research in that space, but there still isn’t enough research there. And there’s not enough research on the holistic side and with non-conventional therapies. I was so aware of that going into this, myself. And then, in terms of the social media side of it and Belle’s storyline, it would be very easy to say that Belle is an evil person because of what she did. But what the show does is tap into the nuances of that. There is nuance to everything. She did what she did because of her childhood and because of her desperate need for community and support and love and things that she didn’t get in her childhood. I’m not saying that what she did was justified, in any way. You get a different perspective with each of these characters on the show. I think that Sam did that so beautifully.

I’m not excusing her behavior at all either, but watching this, you get such a sense of loneliness really from her that you can understand why she almost seems to get excited by getting feedback from people, even though it’s very misguided and not at all in the place that she should be getting it from?

DEVER: When we were talking about the scenes where Belle is on her phone, reading comments and support from people online Sam described these emojis that she wanted to put in, in post. I was like, “I don’t know what that’s gonna look like.” I just imagined a giant warm blanket around me. This thing that she is just so desperate for is finally happening and she’s doing it herself. It’s definitely twisted and complicated, for sure.

Alycia Debnam-Carey Struggled to Leave the Emotional Journey of ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’ Behind

“I definitely think it stuck with me for a little bit.”

Alycia, in the final episodes of this, you really had to get into the headspace of a young person who knows that she’s dying. How did you get into that mindset, and how did you get out of that mindset?

DEBNAM-CAREY: It was pretty hard, actually. I do think it impacted me more than maybe I expected. It was actually quite hard to get out of. I don’t really think I got out of it for a while after we finished filming because it was such an emotional journey. It was someone that was fighting so hard and was so angry and felt this injustice that she’d done to herself. There were all the complex and complicated emotions that go along with her advocating for herself and fighting for what she wanted to be doing but also failing and being the cause of a family falling apart. The shame and the guilt was a lot. It wasn’t easy. I was just very lucky to have Sam’s beautiful writing and (director) Jeffrey [Walker]’s guidance and the beautiful actors that were just so wonderful to work opposite. At that point, you’re just trying to receive. But it was hard. I definitely think it stuck with me for a little bit.

There’s something beautiful about the relationship that Milla has with her father. That moment when she finally reveals the truth about how bad her arm is was just so heartbreaking to watch. How did you find that moment? What was that like to share with Matt Nable?

DEBNAM-CAREY: Matt is just such an extraordinary actor. Not that particular scene, but when he’s in the doctor’s office and he goes, “You’re a doctor. This is what you do. Move mountains. Do something. Save her,” and it’s just too late, I remember watching him and being like, “You’re amazing!” He’s just so incredible. I was very lucky that I got to work opposite him. He’s a very generous actor. Sam really crafted such an extraordinarily beautiful, heart-breaking storyline. For me, that did a lot of the work. Even the first time I read it, I was already choked up because it’s just so emotional and heartbreaking. I know for a lot of people who’ve watched that moment, it’s a lot.

Aisha, your character is the one that’s emotionally strong enough to finally draw a line with Belle. Chanelle shows up at Belle’s house to confront her and there’s the whole blowup between Chanelle and Belle and Clive. What was that argument like to shoot?

DEE: That was actually the first scene that I shot in the whole shoot, which was absolutely terrifying. But I was blessed, obviously, with Kaitlin and Ash [Zukerman] as scene partners, and what was on the page was already so beautifully crafted. I love the moment when they realize they have the same tattoo. That moment always made me laugh. There was something so darkly funny about the whole thing. I just had to receive. I just had to sit there and let it happen. I love that Chanell, as a character, is someone who’s so comfortable with her rage. She represented female rage to me in a way that felt really empowering. I loved getting to embody that and live with her for a while. She’s cool.

Kaitlyn Dever Had To Sing, Curse and Nail an Australian Accent for ‘Apple Cider Vinegar’

“I just had to go for it.”

Kaitlyn, there are a couple moments in this that are brief, but that really made an impression. One was you singing “Roar” without music? What was that like to do?

DEVER: As cringy as it looked, I was cringing for myself. I had to just do it. There were a lot of moving parts to this show and a lot of moments in the whole journey of making this show that I was like, “I’ve just really gotta do it and not hold back at all.” That was also a last-minute decision on Sam Strauss’ part. She was like, “Wait a minute, you sing in real life, right?” And I was like, “Yes.” And she was like, “I think you should. What are your thoughts about singing ‘Roar’ at the book launch?” And I was like, “Oh, my God. Okay. Well, I guess that’s what I’m doing now.” It was a lot. I just had to go for it.

The other moment was when you’re sitting on the airplane and you scream, “Fuck!”

DEVER: I asked Sam if I could do that. Sam was like, “You’re screaming, ‘Fuck!’ in your head.” And I was like, “What if I actually did it?” It’s a nice segue way into that little song there at the end. I really had to just go for it in so many ways with this role.

How challenging was it to do the accent, and also keep it up while you’re having such heightened emotions at times and being surrounded by scene partners who actually are Australian? Did you feel like you were judging yourself more than other people might be judging you?

DEVER: Oh, my God, I was judging myself. I thought everyone around me was judging me. I thought the whole crew was judging me. I was so nervous.

DEE: It was so the opposite. I was like, “Wow.”

DEVER: I was like, “They’re just saying that. Everyone is lying to me.” It’s so hard when you’re surrounded by the accent. I was being so nitpicky about every single word. But I really wouldn’t have been able to do it without my amazing dialect coach, Jenny Kent. She literally is an angel on earth and helped guide me throughout the entire process. I felt safe in her arms because she was behind the monitors every single day, listening to every single word. And then, we’d edit things and make sure it was right. I became pretty obsessed with it, and making sure I was doing it right. I was so nervous. It’s definitely not the easiest accent.

DEBNAM-CAREY: It’s probably the hardest one.

DEE: Also, depending on where you’re from, sometimes I’ll hear another Australian accent and I’ll be like, “Are you sure you’re talking words?,” because it sounds weird to me.

Apple Cider Vinegar is available to stream on Netflix. Check out the trailer: